Salix Xfce 15.0beta1

[gapan]

My question: despite salix 15 is not 100 % polished according the Gapan's criterion, can we do an upgrade of all the system simply changing repositories and running slapt-get --update && slapt-get --upgrade? Would be this secure?

I can guarantee that it won't work just like that. The changes between 14.2 and 15.0 are just too many. And I'm quite certain that nobody has tried to do anything like that yet. My priority is getting a 15.0RC1 iso out in the next days. Perhaps after that I'll attempt upgrading a system from 14.2 to 15.0 and see how it goes. We usually have a page in the wiki describing the steps one has to go through for a safe upgrade. I'm hoping we'll be able to do the same for 14.2 to 15.0. If anyone tries it before I do, feel free to post your findings.

[gapan]

PyQt5 is a missing dependency of KolorControl

Thanks, fixed!

tintii segfaults when trying to open images
urbanlandscape segfaults when trying to open images

I can confirm those here. Unfortunately, the only thing I can do is remove them from the repos.

[missTell]

1. I don't get any of these. And by trying out your VMs, I don't see anything like that there either. It must be something you've tweaked in you local configuration.

2. Can you elaborate on this [pop-ups]? I don't see what you're talking about here either.

3. What did you change for the hover effect on the panel launcher icons?

4. Not sure about that. Maybe it makes it more familiar for photoshop users. But we can't use that as it is. It makes no sense to bundle all those fonts like that, only for the sake of gimp and I'm not really sure it is legal to do so.

--

1. My VM's are just a 'showcase' for better default configuration and examples for Mac-like and Ubuntu-like setups, and IceWM is ... NIce WM. They are not related to the issues described, and yes, they show the same issues.

Since I found those issues during the 'just playing around' session and wasn't properly testing (== didn't make any notes on how to reproduce the issue), I can't give you any details, but the cause is not my tweaked local configuration. True, it could be that some issues become even more obvious, as, as we know, one pixel can 'make or break' Xfce configuration.

Since I have at least a half dozen of installations, altered and always one unaltered, I picked up the last, unaltered Salix 15 beta installation and made a short video to show you how the issues are there.

In the first part of video, just follow the cursor (mouse pointer). We are pretending to be an ordinary user, who is trying different presets, and at the end, it decides to go back to the original Salix preset. Since the purpose of that first part of the video is only to show the missing start menu button and pop-downs instead of pop-ups, you should always watch how the button comes and goes and our regular user stays without the start menu button at the end (in Salix preset!).

https://gofile.io/d/8EsYV5

2. It's visible on some of the screenshots, but it should be clear after watching the first part of the video.

3. It should be clear after watching the second part of the video. However, it has some issues ... you could contact me on my e-mail ...

4. I forgot to remove the fonts, and the latest PhotoGimp ships with (out): "NOTE: PhotoGIMP will no longer ship with fonts installed as default."

https://github.com/Diolinux/PhotoGIMP/releases

As of "more familiar for photoshop users" ... Basically almost every photo-manipulating software ever made is using "Photoshop-like" layout. Affinity, Corel, as well as most of those fewer known or cheaper 'amateur' programs ... except the Gimp, and almost all of the past and future users are coming to Linux from Windows, and from those applications ...

--

What you can or what you can't, you must know. It is your distribution, and you'll need to decide.

I can only tell theme X is better because ... or icon-set Y is better because ... or configuration Z makes more sense because ...

But, if you decide to take the worse, because 'you like it' or whatever, there's gonna be another 'could've been good, but it isn't' Xfce around.

--

Xfce basically is a combination of broken WM and broken extensions, broken themes, broken icon-sets, broken documentation etc., and there is currently not a one singe properly looking or functioning Xfce around.
(Please don't pick on me with 'I thought that 'broken' means it's not starting -- you all know what am I talking about and why do I invest that much time in it.)

Here you get two more 'broken' examples, one from Salix and another from Zorin (for a good reason!), but basically, it's not about the distro -- it's about the Xfce.

DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 978, 25 July 2022, post #14

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20220725

https://ibb.co/yszgJ94

--

Thunar layout

Open Thunar and choose 'Show hidden files'

https://ibb.co/YNbD6Lp

Note the previous layout, and what will happen next

https://ibb.co/qBsSvQK

Uncheck 'Show hidden files' again

https://ibb.co/JttNkQj

You just got a new layout

https://ibb.co/2ckNvqF

Now, go level up

https://ibb.co/vVrPqQM

You'll end up here

https://ibb.co/xChX6g5

Now, click 'back'

https://ibb.co/nPWymCp

The layout changed again, and the very first view is back

https://ibb.co/VLcjvT9

This is productivity-killer.

You know, 'visual memory' ... 'second row, second from the left is what I need' ... uuups, where is it?

--

Next 'who cares about 1 pixel' issue ...

I did choose Zorin 16.1 because it is the only Xfce distribution where the developers made some effort to make it look good and behave more friendly, but that's the case only until you don't touch the defaults. I don't consider their default theme a good choice (the contrast is very bad), but that's completely irrelevant for the Xfce issue.

Default task bar (panel) height 40 px

https://ibb.co/6gCT3NM

At 16 px everything looks exactly the same as 40 px

https://ibb.co/tcXSjNS

At 22 px icons grow up, one icon is only a dark square (missing), and the othe one has a new background color, and all three have different size

https://ibb.co/qpLBn63

At 23 px, all three icons grow up, one loses 'mysterious' background color, and the network icon is much smaller / different size

https://ibb.co/jT68SQ9

At 24 px (== bigger than 23), two of three icons are getting SMALLER and now, have the same size as the network, but battery grows up further

https://ibb.co/f9wg4Wf

At 25 px, network stays small, but other three icons are getting bigger and are now all same size

https://ibb.co/bNVkj3F

At 32 px, network is still small (the correct size) and the other 3 icons are huge, much bigger than application starters

https://ibb.co/vLpcmMs

That's not how it is supposed to work in the year 2022 ...

[Papasot]

There is a problem after last system upgrade, quite probably caused by the new package python2-module-collection. After upgrading and rebooting (runlevel 3) I see this:

Code: Select all

darkstar login: import: unable to open X server `' @ error/import.c/ImportImageCommand/347.
/etc/rc.d/rc.services.py: line 5: blacklist: command not found
/etc/rc.d/rc.services.py: line 89: syntax error near unexpected token `('
/etc/rc.d/rc.services.py: line 89: def validscripts1():'

I have to hit [Enter], then the system proceeds with the usual login prompt. None of the above happened before, and I always used runlevel 3. It seems rc.services.py assumes runlevel 5, which should not be mandatory.

[Papasot]

glfw has a bug fix release (version 3.3.8, as of July 22). The corresponding Salix 15 packages can be found here. Please update the repos accordingly (I am assuming we are not in the package freeze phase yet).

[gapan]

There is a problem after last system upgrade, quite probably caused by the new package python2-module-collection. After upgrading and rebooting (runlevel 3) I see this:

Code: Select all

darkstar login: import: unable to open X server `' @ error/import.c/ImportImageCommand/347.
/etc/rc.d/rc.services.py: line 5: blacklist: command not found
/etc/rc.d/rc.services.py: line 89: syntax error near unexpected token `('
/etc/rc.d/rc.services.py: line 89: def validscripts1():'

I have to hit [Enter], then the system proceeds with the usual login prompt. None of the above happened before, and I always used runlevel 3. It seems rc.services.py assumes runlevel 5, which should not be mandatory.

Oops. Please delete /etc/rc.d/rc.services.py. There is already an /etc/rc.d/rc.services (without the .py) that is the right one. It seems I have added both by accident. I will update the package. Thanks for the report!

[Papasot]

Oops. Please delete /etc/rc,d/rc.services.py. There is already an /etc/rc.d/rc.services (without the .py) that is the right one. It seems I have added both by accident. I will update the package. Thanks for the report!

Problem fixed. Thank you gapan! That was super quick.

[Papasot]

xnedit has a minor bug fix release, as of July 10, 2022. Salix 15.0 packages are here. Update the repos, if it's worth it.

[gapan]

@missTell

I saw your video. I think your issue with the disappearing start button is because you don't have the whiskermenu plugin installed. Since the panel profile preset now uses that, you get nothing when you enable the "Salix" panel profile.

That said, the panel profile tool is indeed a bit buggy. Somehow it gets confused with the Xubuntu 18.04 profile and if you select that, almost everything you will select later won't work properly. Here is a workaround I found to work:

1. Start with a default Salix profile
2. Save your current configuration
3. Switch to the Xubuntu 18.04 profile (you'll get a missing icon for the menu, because it uses a weird icon name for it. I'll deal with it in the qogir-icon-theme package)
4. If you now switch to the "Salix" profile, you won't get a menu
5. Switch to your previously saved profile. You'll get your menu back, but for some reason, the l3afpad panel launcher will not be there, even if it was there when you saved your profile.
6. Switch back to the "Salix" profile.

In any case, if you're playing too much with your panel, saving your current profile before doing anything probably seems like a good idea.

[missTell]

@gapan

A multi-part answer, but it'll be easy to distinguish different topics ...

============================================================================================

Thank's for the clarification.
However, in this particular case, I did resolve in a matter of seconds.

As I wrote, unaltered version of Salix 15 beta was used.
If update/upgrade script did or didn't install anything, then it is missing.

I could need your help on another thing -- please see the bottom.

============================================================================================

Before I continue, one small detail about me: I'm neither extraordinary smart, nor extraordinary
'high-nosed' -- I just made some experiences through helping others over the past approx. 40-years,
and I learned to 'pretend' -- to think like someone else, to put myself into 'don't know position'.

And -- I'm always trying to stay reasonable ...

============================================================================================

1. The appearance of one OS is just like meeting a real person -- the first impression matters.
If you screw up the first impression, you may easily lose the person, or the customer forever.

Salix is in beta and it'll eventually leave that stage and appear on DistroWatch. Some might
be tempted to try it out, and not many are able to fix even the simplest '1 px issue'.

Recently we had a small conversation which ended up with "there is no such mechanism".
It was about gftp, faulty starter and providing the replacement .png icon.

We have some buggy panel profiler, and we have ...

2. "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong." (Murphy's law)

Nice example would be Jesse's answer on "Transferring a desktop theme to another distribution".

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20220718

The last DW post, #64 is a recapitulation -- all related posts are in those 2 links.

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issu ... 25&mode=67
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issu ... 18&mode=67

It is well-worth reading the posts from 'Could-not-take-my-desktop-with', Leon and Leonie.

--

Now, since not every issue is fixable by distro devs, as it is a component-devs which should fix it,
my suggestion would be the following:

Try to find some working workarounds.

Maybe gftp could be 'forked'? Download from Salix own repository, with fixed gftp starter?

Buggy panel-profiler with problematic configurations fixed or removed, or even with own custom
configurations?

I've no idea if one can do that, and if yes, how much extra work would it cause, but it would help
making better 'first impression' -- it's much better if the panel-profiler has two working
presets, then if it is full of configurations which will end up as above.

============================================================================================

Speaking of Neutronium 'Could-not-take-my-desktop-with' and dark themes, if there is anybody here
interested, I could prepare and upload a Neutronium-dark-Salix VM and a list of changes ...

https://ibb.co/V3WcS4T
https://ibb.co/hy3LfYn
https://ibb.co/3k7cDSG

https://ibb.co/JBjSg35
https://ibb.co/fFgCd5y
https://ibb.co/z7wBDPt

https://ibb.co/KjCZyPV
https://ibb.co/KG8zLKF
https://ibb.co/7j95D6z

============================================================================================

Slim IceWM SpaceFM make a very nice combination.

I tried installing Slim (see my VM) and it installed fine, but it didn't offer to replace GDM,
as it is doing in some other distros.

1. How one can swap GDM for Slim?

2. How one can get rid of DDM forever, should one decide to keep Slim?

Only (as simple as possible and) Idiot-proof answer please!