[Solved] Booting Problem

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Atip
Posts: 539
Joined: 5. Jun 2011, 04:27

[Solved] Booting Problem

Post by Atip »

As of late I have a problem booting in the mornng after shutdown
in the evening.

The boot process stops on "detecting IDE drive" since apparently
my SATA HD is not detected. After several attempts to reboot finally
the drive is detected and booting processes normally.

This happens only on first boot in the morning. Then during the day
I can reboot numerous times changing to different boxes and booting never fails.

What could be the reason for such a behavior? I checked the connections,
unplug und replug. It does not help till suddenly the HD is detected.

Could it be a poor connection of the CPU?
Last edited by Atip on 30. Sep 2017, 05:03, edited 1 time in total.
Crispy
Posts: 5
Joined: 21. Aug 2017, 21:14

Re: Booting Problem

Post by Crispy »

You could try other cable for SATA connection. Maybe a weak battery on mainboard.
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ibka
Posts: 158
Joined: 12. Sep 2010, 13:14
Location: Sweden
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Re: Booting Problem

Post by ibka »

It may be the HD, if i were you i would make sure to have backups of the files.
I had this problems and it was the HD. But it could be mainboard problems to.
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westms
Posts: 298
Joined: 17. Mar 2013, 18:51

Re: Booting Problem

Post by westms »

Atip wrote:As of late I have a problem booting in the mornng after shutdown
in the evening.

The boot process stops on "detecting IDE drive" since apparently
my SATA HD is not detected. After several attempts to reboot finally
the drive is detected and booting processes normally.

This happens only on first boot in the morning. Then during the day
I can reboot numerous times changing to different boxes and booting never fails.

What could be the reason for such a behavior? I checked the connections,
unplug und replug. It does not help till suddenly the HD is detected.

Could it be a poor connection of the CPU?
The main cause of this behavior is the aging of the power supply. With the same age of the mainboard, the voltage regulators on the mainboard are also possible.

The causative components are electrolytic capacitors with liquid electrolyte. The electrolyte dries out over time. This increases the equivalent series resistance (ESR) of the electrolytic capacitors, resulting in poor supply of the ripple current. The stated series resistance is lower at higher operating temperatures than at room temperature, which makes the difference observed.

For a while, the device can still be operated after it has become warm and then restarted. But already in a few weeks it will not work anymore.

A test on the cause of power supply aging, can be done in a non-notebook computer by exchange for a younger or new one.

By the way, this is not a Salix problem. That is why the topic is discussed in 'Off Topic:Salix pub' at best.
User avatar
Atip
Posts: 539
Joined: 5. Jun 2011, 04:27

Re: Booting Problem

Post by Atip »

westms wrote:
Atip wrote:As of late I have a problem booting in the mornng after shutdown
in the evening.

The boot process stops on "detecting IDE drive" since apparently
my SATA HD is not detected. After several attempts to reboot finally
the drive is detected and booting processes normally.

This happens only on first boot in the morning. Then during the day
I can reboot numerous times changing to different boxes and booting never fails.

What could be the reason for such a behavior? I checked the connections,
unplug und replug. It does not help till suddenly the HD is detected.

Could it be a poor connection of the CPU?
The main cause of this behavior is the aging of the power supply. With the same age of the mainboard, the voltage regulators on the mainboard are also possible.

The causative components are electrolytic capacitors with liquid electrolyte. The electrolyte dries out over time. This increases the equivalent series resistance (ESR) of the electrolytic capacitors, resulting in poor supply of the ripple current. The stated series resistance is lower at higher operating temperatures than at room temperature, which makes the difference observed.

For a while, the device can still be operated after it has become warm and then restarted. But already in a few weeks it will not work anymore.

A test on the cause of power supply aging, can be done in a non-notebook computer by exchange for a younger or new one.

By the way, this is not a Salix problem. That is why the topic is discussed in 'Off Topic:Salix pub' at best.
Thanks westms! I am aware that this is not a Salix problem. Would not know how to use Off Topic.

I had the suspicion that it could be temperature related.

Will get a new power supply. In the meantime I will not shutdown.

Crispy your suggestion did not work.
Tux012
Posts: 6
Joined: 29. Sep 2017, 10:36

Re: Booting Problem

Post by Tux012 »

First of all sorry for my English that isn't my language (I'm Italian). I have the same problem on my notebook for about a week now. This began after I upgraded system including Kernel-firmware 20170914 and kernel 4.4.88. Of course I updated Grub before reboot with the new kernel. Now after Grub is loaded it takes about 10 minutes to begin read hard-disk drive, after OS is loaded all works fine. I've tried downgrade the firmware and also tried to boot with and without battery but this doesn't solve.
OS is Salix 14.2 xfce 32 bit and my notebook is an old Acer Aspire 5500 Series.
Thanks for any help.
westms
Posts: 298
Joined: 17. Mar 2013, 18:51

Re: Booting Problem

Post by westms »

Atip wrote:I had the suspicion that it could be temperature related.

Will get a new power supply. In the meantime I will not shutdown.
Addition:

There are other reasons for temperature-dependent failures. Here are only two of them, which are also possible. SMD components on the mainboard, mainly resistors and capacitors, can break if a plug or an expansion board is plugged into the mainboard. The causes are inadequate mounting of the mainboard or too much force. As a result, the solder joints can break as well. The affected components still function very often, but the length changes during heating up after it is switched on and during cooling down after power off, the operation becomes more and more susceptible, until nothing goes anymore.

Since the introduction of lead-free solder, soldering joints also break independently as a result of changes in the length during temperature changes. One must only wait long enough and have sufficiently high temperature differences. In most cases, however, only components are affected which reach unusually high operating temperatures.

Power supplies can be tested for an imminent failure. By replacing against a new power supply, with which the error then no longer occurs, is proven that the old power supply causes the fault. But the old power supply can be tested directly. If the computer still starts in warm state, but in cold state no longer, then the following can be tried to determine the power supply as guilty. From the computer in the cold state, the power supply is removed and heated considerably. For this purpose, the power supply is opened and warmed completely (through and through) with very warm air or by direct sunlight to 60 to 70 degree Celsius (°C). All components are then hot and can no longer be touched with bare fingers. The power supply is then assembled correctly and installed again mechanically and electrically in the hot state. Fast work is required. Immediately afterwards, the computer is switched on. If the computer is booting with a hot power supply and the rest of the cold computer, the power supply can be assigned the main responsibility for the failure. Perhaps not everyone can afford this test method.
westms
Posts: 298
Joined: 17. Mar 2013, 18:51

Re: Booting Problem

Post by westms »

Tux012 wrote:First of all sorry for my English that isn't my language (I'm Italian). I have the same problem on my notebook for about a week now. This began after I upgraded system including Kernel-firmware 20170914 and kernel 4.4.88. Of course I updated Grub before reboot with the new kernel. Now after Grub is loaded it takes about 10 minutes to begin read hard-disk drive, after OS is loaded all works fine. I've tried downgrade the firmware and also tried to boot with and without battery but this doesn't solve.
OS is Salix 14.2 xfce 32 bit and my notebook is an old Acer Aspire 5500 Series.
Thanks for any help.
I can not contribute much, but this first looks like a very different problem.

Have the packages kernel-modules and kernel-headers been installed, too? And which kernel?
Tux012
Posts: 6
Joined: 29. Sep 2017, 10:36

Re: Booting Problem

Post by Tux012 »

westms wrote:
Tux012 wrote:First of all sorry for my English that isn't my language (I'm Italian). I have the same problem on my notebook for about a week now. This began after I upgraded system including Kernel-firmware 20170914 and kernel 4.4.88. Of course I updated Grub before reboot with the new kernel. Now after Grub is loaded it takes about 10 minutes to begin read hard-disk drive, after OS is loaded all works fine. I've tried downgrade the firmware and also tried to boot with and without battery but this doesn't solve.
OS is Salix 14.2 xfce 32 bit and my notebook is an old Acer Aspire 5500 Series.
Thanks for any help.
I can not contribute much, but this first looks like a very different problem.

Have the packages kernel-modules and kernel-headers been installed, too? And which kernel?
Thanks for reply. kernel-modules and kernel-headers are installed at version 4.4.88
westms
Posts: 298
Joined: 17. Mar 2013, 18:51

Re: Booting Problem

Post by westms »

Grub-2 is already loaded, I've read. Perhaps the waiting time until automatic booting is extended.

There is the Menu Mode, the Edit-Mode, the Command Line Interface and the Rescue Mode.
What is displayed after loading Grub-2? The Menu Mode or the Command Line Interface?

Does the file grub.cfg exists?
Is the Grub-2 environment variable 'prefix' set to the location of this file?

Is it possible to select an entry from the menu in Menu Mode and load a kernel manually by pressing the enter key?
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