Install without CD?

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gapan
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Re: Install without CD?

Post by gapan » 31. Jan 2016, 12:38

Sasquatch wrote:Still doesn't work. I'll try a different iso later today in case something got corrupted while downloading.
That's why there are md5sums in the downloads page.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Install without CD?

Post by Sasquatch » 31. Jan 2016, 13:39

gapan wrote:
Sasquatch wrote:Still doesn't work. I'll try a different iso later today in case something got corrupted while downloading.
That's why there are md5sums in the downloads page.
I'm highly skilled at not paying attention to those. :D But I just did, and it checks out. So if there's a problem with the iso it's something that happened when I did the "dd" to put it on the stick. I'm betting it's just something about the BIOS of the Acer that doesn't play well with the booter on the stick.

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gapan
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Re: Install without CD?

Post by gapan » 2. Feb 2016, 00:52

If you have another stick, try with that.
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laprjns
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Re: Install without CD?

Post by laprjns » 2. Feb 2016, 11:14

What is the make and model of the laptop? Does it boot from UEFI or legacy bios? Is there OS already on it? if so what is it?
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mimosa
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Re: Install without CD?

Post by mimosa » 2. Feb 2016, 11:53

This happened to me, and trying other sticks didn't help - till I bought a new one. They don't last forever, and the accumulated defects seem to be more critical when it comes to booting, so even if it still seems to work for data, it may be faulty.

westms
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Re: Install without CD?

Post by westms » 4. Feb 2016, 00:26

mimosa wrote:This happened to me, and trying other sticks didn't help - till I bought a new one. They don't last forever, and the accumulated defects seem to be more critical when it comes to booting, so even if it still seems to work for data, it may be faulty.
Hi mimosa,

I think you are trying to tell a story. The IT's equivalent to spin a yarn. 8-) and :)
I can not see a difference between an access to common data and an access to boot data. For the stick that looks all the same.

The failures of average USB flash memory sticks are mostly determined by the handling of the sticks and the ambient conditions, rare by defects in the memory or controller chips.

If you, for example, drop your sticks or carry them in wet jeans with you or your cat plays with them, then the sticks are not last long. :mrgreen: Also you live to my knowledge in a steamy and hot area :D and that also very bother the sticks - generally any electronics.

But there are also reasons that prevent to boot from a stick, though data can be easily written on and read from it. One is as found in manipulated U3 sticks. U3 USB flash drives are devices adhering to the U3 specification from U3. U3 is/was a joint venture between SanDisk and M-Systems. They used the term U3 smart drives for it. If one has tried to delete the Boot ROM partition from the drive or reformat the drive to free up the space thus occupied, then booting from such a U3 smart media is not possible. This problem can be corrected again.

Another reason can be found in the BIOS or (U)EFI. In many BIOS and (U)EFI versions, there is the option "USB Legacy Support". This should be turned on, because then the BIOS uses its own drivers for USB devices. Without this BIOS driver can not be booted from USB. But a running operating system can transmit data, because this uses its own drivers.

Story time to end for now. Good night.

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mimosa
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Re: Install without CD?

Post by mimosa » 4. Feb 2016, 09:05

That's interesting, and makes sense up to a point. But what about a stick that used to work, and doesn't any more? My thinking is that a stray byte or two in a sound or text file may pass unnoticed, but not when it comes to booting an OS from the stick.

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Re: Install without CD?

Post by westms » 5. Feb 2016, 00:40

mimosa wrote:That's interesting, and makes sense up to a point. But what about a stick that used to work, and doesn't any more? My thinking is that a stray byte or two in a sound or text file may pass unnoticed, but not when it comes to booting an OS from the stick.
- A flash stick, which worked for a time and now is dead?
There are several reasons. The mechanical stress during insertion and removal may have caused a fatigue fracture on an important solder or strip conductor. This can be done in the vicinity of the plug or the memory controller. Corrosion of solder joints can also be the cause. For example, when unsuitable because permanently aggressive, soldering flux was used, the board would have to be very thoroughly cleaned. That will increase the price and therefore cleaning does not occur. You never know what dilapidated company carried out the soldering. Higher humidity then promotes the decomposition. Suitable soldering flux is passive at ordinary temperature. Boards must then not have to be cleaned. Also brand manufacturers produce faulty goods, especially when trying to reduce manufacturing costs. Remember to the scandal with bloated and leaking electrolytic capacitors on motherboards and in power supplies.

- A flash stick, which worked perfectly a time and now shows errors?
The above reasons also fit this, only that they are not final. A loose connection.
More likely is a memory controller with internal defect. In more modern sticks of average quality, the memory chips should be able to endure at least 100000 to 1 million write operations per memory cell. Of course, there are also early failures. Therefore, a defective memory chip is conceivable as the cause. A softened power supply can be a cause in question, too. Whether memory controller or memory chips are defective, this is testable.

On a 2 GiB flash stick taken together two to three ISO images would fit. If you write now an ISO image on the stick with "dd", then still about 1/2 to 2/3 of stick memory is free. Can one now boot that image and install it, everything is good. But when later can not be booted from this stick or the installation process dies or the installation performed is faulty, then perhaps memory cells have lost their content. The organization of the data flash memory controller may be damaged, also. A test may be as follows. One writes the same image to the stick with "dd" again - there is still enough unused space for an image file. The flash memory controller puts the image on the available unused memory. The place for the previous image is released, but not used again until all other unsued space was once occupied (wear leveling algorithms).

If the stick has a file system and are music, photo, video and movie files on it, then some faulty memory cells have little or no noticeable effects. For photo files, you realize it still best when image content changes or the viewer refuses representation. In movies you see mostly only error messages in log files that indicate faulty frames. That there could be such an incident, if played from a file on a storage device: http://forum.salixos.org/viewtopic.php? ... 833#p39400. If it is only a file, you can continue to use the stick. To do this, renames the corrupted file and then copy the file to the stick again from an intact source. The kept broken file blocks the use of the underlying defective memory cells.

The power supply of the computer can be responsible for the misconduct of the sticks, too. The power supply may already become weak. The electrolytic capacitors in the power supply and on the mainboard can be progressed dried out (bad ripple values). A new graphics card in the computer, with higher power consumption may degrade the values ​​of the power supply and the mainboard. All that deteriorates the function of the stick. A stick with deteriorated values of electrical charges ​​in some memory cells may then deliver incorrect data. This is testable. Does the stick work on a new computer or on a power supply powered USB hub?

The program F3 - an alternative to h2testw - can test USB mass storage devices on Linux and Mac OS X to find errors and fakes. With h2testw one can afford it under Windows too.

F3 - an alternative to h2testw, by Michel Machado http://oss.digirati.com.br/f3/

Something to read:
https://fixfakeflash.wordpress.com/2010 ... A0machado/

https://flashdrivefacts.wordpress.com/2 ... it-drives/

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/bit+rot

For German language readers only:
http://www.heise.de/download/h2testw.ht ... ntare=alle

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mimosa
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Re: Install without CD?

Post by mimosa » 5. Feb 2016, 07:05

westms, thank you, that is very interesting. Good tip too about not deleting corrupt files.

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laprjns
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Re: Install without CD?

Post by laprjns » 5. Feb 2016, 10:59

Although it could be a failing usb stick, I think its more probable that the OP problem is his computers uefi firmware not being able to read the usb stick dd'ed with salix iso image. I have an Asus laptop which refuses to boot any USB memory stick that I have that has been dd 'ed with any Slackware derivative iso, including Salix and Slackel, yet they boot fine on my Desktop with a uefi MSI motherboard. On the Asus they just boot up to a grub prompt. Just yesterday I dd a Ubuntu iso to a 8GB Imation USB drive and it booted fine on both my uefi systems, Then dd Salix64 XFCE to the drive and sure enough it wouldn't boot on my laptop, but work fine on my desktop . I been trying to figure out for well over a year now why my Asus laptop has this problem and the only thiing that I can think of is that is has something to do with the size of the efi partition or the file size of the bootloader that is dd onto the USB drive, Another possibility is that it also could be associated with the grub boot manager.
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