DidierSpaier wrote: ↑7. Dec 2021, 00:48Anyway your rant about icons size in XFCE 4.14 is pointless: I just started XFCE 4.16 in Slackware-current (so the version that gapan will almost certainly ship in Salix 15) and the layout is of course very different.
WHAT. PART. YOU. DID. NOT. UNDERSTAND?
Desktop LAYOUT is taskbar on top, bottom, left, right, or on all 4 sides, if you wish so.
Icon scaling is proportionally growing or shrinking, according to settings.
DidierSpaier wrote: ↑7. Dec 2021, 00:48
As the maintainer of another distribution based on Slackware I will also certainly ship XFCE 4.16 in Slint 15.0 alongside other desktops, and won't write CSS either
missTell wrote: ↑6. Dec 2021, 12:58
[...] if the new Salix comes out based on Xfce, it'll not be worth downloading.
P.S.
Real life use case scenario:
A small school with a couple of hundreds of kids and two, three dozen of teachers.
The first thing they do is to change the wallpaper and rescale and reposition the taskbar -- some even put it right! (!!!)
Guess why it'll be Mac's for the school, and not a Linux Xfce ... The NEXT year will be 'the year of Linux' ... definitely NEXT year, every year ...
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” (Mark Twain)
missTell wrote: ↑7. Dec 2021, 04:17With other words, if my mum or grandpa, or your neighbor, or its child, dares to have less than perfect eyesight, and if it ever dares to change something as essential as the height of the task bar, it'll be pretty much screwed up, and it'll need some expert help ... Will say -- unusable for 'normal's' ... 99 % of PC users.
Really? I don't see Linux support channels flooded by complaints of this kind. And I have frequented a lot of such channels since twenty years.
Further, I maintain Slint which is as far as I know the most accessible to the blind and visually impaired of all Linux distributions, from installation to usage, so I am not unaware of the issues they encounter. I run a very active mailing list on which people can post their issues, to which a majority of registered users are blind or have a low vision. They do not need you to represent themselves, feel free to consult the archives: https://www.freelists.org/archive/slint/
DidierSpaier wrote: ↑7. Dec 2021, 09:05 Really? I don't see Linux support channels flooded by complaints of this kind.
"Really? I don't see Linux support channels flooded by complaints of this kind."
Yes, really. Please try to think why ...
First, who are 'the users' at all? Well, everybody. Doctors, professors, students, pupils ... car-mechanic ... cleaning person ... They work in companies, or some maybe own one, and they don't care for the operating systems -- they care for the applications which they need to get their job done. Computer is a tool. Just like a screwdriver or a hammer. If they have a problem, they go to their IT-support. They come to me.
Our grandparents, our parents, children, friends and neighbors are also 'users'. What do they do when something doesn't work? They look for 'the nerd'. They come to me.
Me alone, in some 'support channel', is already hundreds or thousands at once.
Second, some users just can't see or don't care. Those are kind of 'the lucky one'.
Third, who goes in forums and 'support channels'? A couple of nerds, who enjoy fiddling with their toys, who actually most of the time only customize something somewhere, and when they are bored, they jump to another distribution. They are the only ones who go to some 'support channels' or forums. I hope, they are not the majority of Linux users, but in total, they are probably less than 1 % of all 'computer users'.
Forth, one has to look for something, if one wants to find out, if there is some issue with something or not ...
Again, you are loosing your time (and our) complaining about this issue in a distribution forum. Bring it to the attention of the XFCE developers (again?). If they can't or don't want to solve it, there is nothing that we can do here. Maybe choose a distribution that patches XFCE to solve it, if you find one?
1. I am not complaining -- I am making you aware of issues that some / many can't even see.
2. It doesn't matter what I am using or not using, nor why. It is irrelevant for the quality of some product.
3. It doesn't matter if 1.5 billion sees that something is wrong -- it is absolutely enough if one single notices it.
Remember Giordano Bruno and Galileo Galilei? The Earth is Flat because the Holy Inquisition said so, and the Earth is still round and rotating -- despite the Inquisition. Kinda, 'everybody IS stupid'.
4. A brand is a product.
If the user buys a Mercedes, and it has bad brakes or seats, then the Mercedes is responsible for the product, and the Mercedes is bad -- not Brembo, and not Reccaro.
The same goes for the operating system. If the very basic functions do not work properly, then 'insert_the_name' distribution is broken by design -- not Mate or Xfce 'is guilty'.
If you build something that is based on bad components, it will be a bad product, and it will be associated with you.
P.S.
That's why the Linux as a whole does not work and will never work, unless some 'Meta' buys it, makes it a closed source, and makes it work. Because, the distribution developers say, it's the WM developers, and the WM developers say, it's the extension writers, and the extension writers say, it's the icon developers, and the icon developers say ... The USER DOES NOT CARE. It just expects the working product. If it doesn't work, it's bad.
And I, I am here to show you / to warn you, that you are building something that want work.
You can spend your time on something that works, or on something that doesn't.
The time will be gone anyway, regardless of what you spend it on.
And so, it is you, who is losing the time here ...
Because, I don't really care.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” (Mark Twain)
The latest "discussion" in this thread shows how amazingly far we've come. Here we have someone that complains that "everything is broken", because the clock text on the taskbar does not scale with the taskbar size in Xfce and because some random icon theme does not include icons for any imaginable size. Or something like that I guess, I'm not that certain that I read through all the ramblings.
I guess I'm old enough to remember a time when to complain that something is "broken", it would mean that you system didn't boot at all, and you'd be left to try to fix it by compiling your own kernel or something, if it was even possible to fix it at all.
BTW, I just did a quick search how MacOS and Windows handle resizing the taskbar, because "Microsoft Windows can do it. Apple macOS can do it". I don't have any of that anywhere near me to try out myself, but I found stuff like these: https://osxdaily.com/2021/10/12/change- ... -size-mac/ https://www.howtogeek.com/670781/how-to ... indows-10/
So, MacOS only allows you to choose "Large" for the font size only, which is maybe one point up from the original size and Windows increases just the size of the taskbar without increasing the size of any icon. Are these the highly polished products you look up to and Linux will never reach their perfection?
PS: Telling Didier that he's inconsiderate of visually impaired people. That really made me laugh out loud.
missTell wrote: ↑1. Dec 2021, 17:18
I'm very much aware that I am not making myself any friends here, when I say, if the new Salix comes out based on Xfce, it'll not be worth downloading.
Actually I never should have replied to this where missTell already prepared in which way the discussion was going to go. But I thought we are civilized enough to not SHOUT at each other. Ironically misTell is right, some members in the community are indeed very difficult to deal with, to say it politely.
gapan wrote: ↑7. Dec 2021, 15:39
Here we have someone that complains that "everything is broken", because the clock text on the taskbar does not scale with the taskbar size in Xfce and because some random icon theme does not include icons for any imaginable size.
how MacOS and Windows handle resizing the taskbar, because "Microsoft Windows can do it. Apple macOS can do it".
PS: Telling Didier that he's inconsiderate of visually impaired people. That really made me laugh out loud.
Since we are still talking about icon SCALING issue and how Xfce can't handle it ...
Looks like you start understanding ... All one needs are two or three PROPERLY WORKING SIZES of taskbar.
It's one thing if you say, I don't care, or I'm unable to see it, but you CAN'T see it, and dare to claim how there is no issue.
What we see here is: KDE Plasma vs. Xfce 4.16 vs. Windows 10, 50 - 40 -30 Px taskbar height.
You actually should be laughing out loud -- because of your incapability to see the issue.
And if you see it, ther's no way, you can say that Xfce is not broken ...
P.S.
I'm out ... It could have been so easy ... just ask: Do you have any idea on how to fix it; but no, someone who CAN'T SEE, tells me that there is no issue, because it can't see it ...
ivanovnegro wrote: ↑7. Dec 2021, 17:25Actually I never should have replied to this where missTell ...
You actually shouldn't have, because I probably don't know as much as you about Slackware, but you don't know as much about GUI or design, as I do.
If I say that the scaling is broken, then it is broken. There's no 'personal opinion' that can change the fact that something does not work properly, and that is not a matter of 'democratic discussion' which will decide over 'does it work', but it's the qualified people, like me, who say what is working properly and what not.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not claiming, I know everything better -- I don't -- but I know it better than you, when it comes to design matters.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” (Mark Twain)
