Trisquels view of Slackware

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ChuangTzu
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Trisquels view of Slackware

Post by ChuangTzu » 21. Jun 2015, 01:25

I thought you guys might find this funny as well.

I like to hang out in several different GNU/Linux (and BSD) forums, and have been involved in a spirited systemd discussion. First, they cannot discuss it without resorting to cursing and derogatory comments, I guess they drank the systemd cool-aid. I digress, however, they basically think that anyone anti-systemd, especially BSD and Slackware users are just a bunch of conspiracy hacks and basically living under rocks. LOL

Try asking them simple questions about systemd, not for or against, and they cannot answer only resort to defending systemd and they think that RedHat is the best thing to happen to Linux. LOL

Just wanted to share that.

crossing fingers that Slackware (Salix) will remain systemd free, or at least contain it to just an init and use other services instead.... ;)

nevarmaor
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Re: Trisquels view of Slackware

Post by nevarmaor » 29. Jun 2015, 16:47

As a former (possibly future?) BSD user I wonder why BSD users are "anti-systemd" since it does not and never will run on any form of BSD. Basically, why would they care? Surely not all BSD users are systemd refugees (although probably a few are).

As a former Arch user I noticed a gradually growing instability in my system over the last couple years which is why I am trying Salix now. I was using Arch for years in large part because of the BSD-style init (instead of Sys-V, which always seemed like so much overkill, especially for the desktop).

I have to laugh at the idea that one of the main selling points of systemd is its boot-up speed. For servers that boot what every couple years or so I would imangine that's not exactly compelling. For laptops, they typically sleep or hibernate when not used so don't need to reboot. For desktops, well, we're a dying breed of luddites anyway. Everyone's using Android on tablets for anything they want speed for (surfing, e-mail, etc) and it rarely reboots either (and will also never use systemd). And yes, I keep reading that the faster boot is just a "byproduct" but it's also one of the main points that everyone that I've read brings up (including developers). Hard-core speed freak desktop users that care about boot times are Windows gamers that laugh at me any time I mention linux or BSD.

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gapan
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Re: Trisquels view of Slackware

Post by gapan » 29. Jun 2015, 22:50

nevarmaor wrote:Basically, why would they care?
Because systemd has the potential of becoming a hard dependency for a lot of stuff they use in BSD too. That would make it impossible to use the same stuff in the future (at least without resorting to "tricks"). Think about Gnome, KDE at least.
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nevarmaor
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Re: Trisquels view of Slackware

Post by nevarmaor » 30. Jun 2015, 10:55

It is true that Gnome [ ... edit I missed the 3 here, 2 has been and still is an option ... ] is no longer available for the BSD's. They are typically more server-centric, desktops always being a "nice bonus". That is starting to change with PCBSD, who are currently developing their own Luminos desktop (using fluxbox). KDE has always been popular among BSD desktop users.

The BSD's don't rely on any of the systemd-absorbed tools to get you to the command prompt. In that they are self-contained. From that point on, getting to the desktop may become an issue. AFAIK they have never used udev (underlying compatibility issues). So the point is, systemd can keep absorbing all it can but the core of BSD will be unaffected. If apache gets absorbed there may be problems, but the beauty of open source is fork as required (thus XOrg, Libre Office, Mate, Cinnamon, etc).

I have nothing in general against systemd. I just personally don't need that kind of complexity in my home computer. It's bad enough having to deal with that at work with Windows 7. Arch used to be easy to manage and, for a "bleeding edge" distro, ran rock solid. Now it doesn't and I don't know why without completely relearning how the system operates, and currently that's a moving target. So now it's not on my computer anymore. I'm sure in time it will mature and become rock steady again. Or it may become more like Windows with random stops and restarts all the time. Either way I've moved on.

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ChuangTzu
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Re: Trisquels view of Slackware

Post by ChuangTzu » 18. Jul 2015, 15:04

gapan,

What are your thoughts on the future of non-systemd and slackware? Do you think Pat and crew will be able to avoid it like PAM and Gnome etc...? Should Slackware/Salix switch to BSD userland and use shims/tricks to keep it out?

Nice thing about using Slackware as a base is any problems will not arise for a few years and by then solutions can be found! :)

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gapan
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Re: Trisquels view of Slackware

Post by gapan » 21. Jul 2015, 15:29

ChuangTzu wrote:gapan,

What are your thoughts on the future of non-systemd and slackware? Do you think Pat and crew will be able to avoid it like PAM and Gnome etc...?
I don't think systemd will be part of slackware at least for the next stable release. I don't think anyone can predict what will happen after that. My understanding is that if there is a way to avoid systemd, slackware will avoid it.
ChuangTzu wrote:Should Slackware/Salix switch to BSD userland and use shims/tricks to keep it out?
We'll cross that bridge when we get there. If we get there.
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ChuangTzu
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Re: Trisquels view of Slackware

Post by ChuangTzu » 23. Jul 2015, 19:40

gapan,

Great, that will protect us for the next 5 years or so at least. ;)

Slack, has always been great at walking along different paths then the mainstream.

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