Options for Salix if Slackware is forced to switch init

If you have any suggestions or ideas about improving Salix, here's the place to post them.

Which init should Salix use for future releases?

SysV
2
6%
BSD style
10
29%
systemd
2
6%
openRC
6
18%
uselessd
0
No votes
Follow whatever Slackware does
10
29%
I don't care about init
4
12%
 
Total votes: 34

GJones
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Re: Options for Salix if Slackware is forced to switch init

Post by GJones » 30. Oct 2015, 12:05

@ChuangTzu

I'll agree that systemd is "not ideal", what with things like binary log format. I've yet to see it cause any serious issues since the early days of Fedora adoption, though.

Personally I think there are bigger things to worry about.

e.g. On the software front, FreeBSD is in shambles from what I've seen. I was experimenting with 10.2 yesterday, and it was astonishingly unstable - programs crashing left and right, losing system files after a forced reboot, etc. Problems I haven't seen on Linux at all for years. And this was with UFS, mind, not ZFS. Lack of viable alternatives is not good... And no, Windows is not a "viable alternative." (Nor is OSX unless you have a few thousand dollars lying around.)

(As for Red Hat, dubious init systems are the very least of their sins. One of their paying customers is the NSA.)

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ChuangTzu
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Re: Options for Salix if Slackware is forced to switch init

Post by ChuangTzu » 30. Oct 2015, 19:14

Init is the most important thing after the kernel itself and it should be considered with the utmost seriousness.

Strange that FreeBSD was unstable for you, it is generally a rock, did you compile the programs or use binaries? Was your system supported by BSD, many are not unfortunately.

Remember, NSA wanted Linus to put a backdoor in the kernel and he said no, well actually F-off apparently. It is not a great stretch of the imagination to presume that they through RedHat could achieve the same thing with this systemd/CoreOS debacle. If you read Lennarts writings on systemd, it becomes very clear that it never had anything to do with just being an init, it wants to become an OS that all of the Linux userland will depend on. That is why he said he does not care if systemd breaks programs, breaks distros if those distros and devs do not choose systemd....if not choosing systemd breaks programs and distros then it is not a choice it is force. Thats all there is too it.

They even have systemd conferences, what other init have you ever heard of having its own conference?

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Papasot
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Re: Options for Salix if Slackware is forced to switch init

Post by Papasot » 3. Nov 2015, 14:51

ChuangTzu wrote:They even have systemd conferences, what other init have you ever heard of having its own conference?
Of course it has its own conferences, it's just another way to push their crap so that everybody uses it.

An init system must be an init system, period. And systemd is NOT an init system. Therefore, I cannot blindly vote for "whatever Slackware does". I would gladly vote for "whatever it is an init system and not an intrusive software trying to take over everything", if there was such an option.

EDIT: I would gladly vote for "whatever it's not Poettering crapware" as well.
A pleasant detail in this forum: several people pick a picture of their pet as their avatar. Who am I to do otherwise? ;-)

rsal
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Re: Options for Salix if Slackware is forced to switch init

Post by rsal » 12. Nov 2015, 14:45

Many users of Salix come here for it being a trimmed, user-friendly version of Slackware. So it may be important to follow Slackware on major issues. If Salix in future becomes too different from Slackware, some users may not have that much trust in it.

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dbvu
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Re: Options for Salix if Slackware is forced to switch init

Post by dbvu » 13. Nov 2015, 13:37

Hi,

Just discovered Salix while searching out systemd free os's and I'm very impressed. Please stay away from systemd, you have a really good thing here.
I voted open-rc because I'm somewhat familiar with it.

db

elcore
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Location: EU

Re: Options for Salix if Slackware is forced to switch init

Post by elcore » 22. Nov 2015, 07:39

I did vote BSD, because it was not so obvious what will be done with old unsupported udev at the time.
Since eudev works fine in -current I think it's safe to assume that Slackware will stick with rc.d in the future.
It's good news tbh, with eudev in base the user can install openRC for example, while this would not be possible with systemd.

colebaas
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Re: Options for Salix if Slackware is forced to switch init

Post by colebaas » 23. Dec 2016, 01:16

Init is the most important thing after the kernel itself and it should be considered with the utmost seriousness.
Very true.
Remember, NSA wanted Linus to put a backdoor in the kernel and he said no, well actually F-off apparently. It is not a great stretch of the imagination to presume that they through RedHat could achieve the same thing with this systemd/CoreOS debacle.
Well yes, except.... To achieve their goals they (and their "paying customers") would have to be a tad better - more capable - on balance than the masses they are trying to conquer.
Now, if you just got finished dusting yourself off because a couple of half-dead-from-starvation Iraqi refugees body-slammed you into the ground .... You probably still have a little ways to go to world-domination, No?!
Just remember; Power lies where people believe it lies. Neither Red Flag (I meant: Hat) nor the NotSoAce has seen any uninterrupted power-trips lately, where a week would go by without some "unlikely source" feeding them their own crap.
Naturally, this does not mean one is not well advised to remain alert! -- Slackware/OpenRC

[Edit]
And in truth I don't see what the big deal about systemd is. Sure it's got problems. So does the mass of duct tape and shell scripts that Slackware currently uses for its init system.
Well I do!! [See "what the big deal about systemd is."]

I propose that one of the most glaring - nothing short of ominous!! - signs of what systemd is about, is the simple fact that, of the many "broken features" currently under "heavy development", full system encryption is not only 100% broken but according to Red Flag itself "It is too deeply entangled within the Systemd code and so we do not see any solutions forthcoming in the immediate future."

Really?!?!

So if you still think that systemd is just an other stupid idea that is currently still being developed.... I would very strongly urge anyone to rethink that notion, and quickly!

Those people are not there to help you out or to wish you well... They have their own masters (+ egos) and their only cause for the moment is to gain maximum power, and for that mass-surveillance is key.
It is what's called a "Hindenburg Moment" and OSS has never been this close to one, ever before! Take heed....


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maximus
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Re: Options for Salix if Slackware is forced to switch init

Post by maximus » 29. Dec 2016, 18:03

I guess this would be the wrong place to post this then:

https://github.com/Dlackware/dlackware

:twisted:

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ww227
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Re: Options for Salix if Slackware is forced to switch init

Post by ww227 » 1. Jan 2017, 13:37

I didn't vote because none of the choices were approriate.
I would have voted for anything but systemd, and if uselessd is what I think, then not that either.

openRC is ok, SysV if fine with me, BSD style is ingeniously simple, there is Runit which works well;
and all of these are acceptable, learnable, usable for an old slacker like me;
and I hear tell of several inits in development, most of which are actually inits and not dubiously tyrannical middleware bent on world domination and lucrative government contracts...

The list of distros enumerated on the various systemdfree websites is growing with accellerating speed, [distrowatch even has a systemdfree quick search function], and If that only goes to show that noone is required to chew the RedFlag pill, it is or ought to be enough for SalixOs and Slackware.

btw, Ever notice that Lennart Poettering looks just like a young BillGates?
O, and, systemd can actually kill you! I am quite sure that systemd caused Ian's death [the debian guy],
am I j/k? am I???

Well, back to my pipe

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