Salix/XFCE as environment for many users

[JRD]

I don't see a problem at all. We could create a setup tool that modify this behavior, and then could apply it right away.
Furthermore, gdm and xscreensaver is installed in all editions of Salix doesn' it ?

[gapan]

I completely agree with shador. It's completely unpredictable and an accident waiting to happen.

I don't see a problem at all. We could create a setup tool that modify this behavior, and then could apply it right away.

That's taking it way too far. And it would still be completely unpredictable and wouldn't solve any problems. Think simple, don't try to make things more complicated.

Furthermore, gdm and xscreensaver is installed in all editions of Salix doesn' it ?

No, gdm is not there in KDE systems and it's certainly not there in core installations that might have installed X on top. It's also not there for people that have removed gdm in favor of xdm/slim/whatever.

[JRD]

I still think my proposition is simple.

I also indicated that the script will detect the presence of gdm or not. I just said that the package is available in Salix.

[witek]

Even replacing the package introduces at one hand an unnecessary maintenance overhead, but even worse diverges us from Slackware. If we start doing that, where to draw the line?

I realize that you have your principles of being compatible with Slackware but I can`t help saying that sometimes
unnecessary maintenance overhead for developers means convenience for the users thus making the perception of Salix more complete and user friendly.

[Shador]

Even replacing the package introduces at one hand an unnecessary maintenance overhead, but even worse diverges us from Slackware. If we start doing that, where to draw the line?

I realize that you have your principles of being compatible with Slackware but I can`t help saying that sometimes
unnecessary maintenance overhead for developers means convenience for the users thus making the perception of Salix more complete and user friendly.

If we start to replace Slackware packages because of simple straightforward configuration changes, then we can do that for most Slackware packages. If we do that there's absolutely no reason anymore to stay with Slackware as we've diverged and would need to do all the work they do ourselves. Consequently this would imply a significant decrease of quality because we do not have the time/manpower to maintain a complete Slackware base + Salix additions. We could of course remove all that Salix additions and maintain a pure Slackware base, but where's the purpose?
Another issue with replacing packages is the response time especially regarding security issues. For Slackware-/Salix-only packages there's some period of time from when the upstream software developers release that bugfix until the distributions responds (updating, building, testing, real life, ...). That response time would increase to about twice for packages that we maintain with minimal changes from upstream as we have to wait for the Slackware update first. It still means almost the same workload it means for Slackware but now also for us.

Salix is built on top of Slackware with only minimal, crucial changes. That's the spirit that emerged Salix and ever since was our light in the darkness. We're not putting that rule into place because we want to bother you. Sorry, if it seems so. It's just that we all look upon Slackware as a highly-stable, well-maintained - ok there was a short blackout recently, but only once - and thoroughly tested system. The more we change the bigger the chance becomes errors slip in, which destroys the great Slackware product. It then becomes a question of either duplicating the Slackware efforts and dropping our additions or doing our additions only like now. Both is not possible and I don't think we would ever be able to do a job that can be compared with Pat's work. So the idea we're following currently is imho the only option.


Anyway, while writing this I got another idea. We could provide a separate settings package that includes only that single change and add it as dependencies in our Slackware deps repository. Thoughts?

[JRD]

+1 Shador on the reasons why not replace Slackware packages if possible.

Anyway, while writing this I got another idea. We could provide a separate settings package that includes only that single change and add it as dependencies in our Slackware deps repository. Thoughts?

Hum... but the deps are installed primor than installing the main package, so that means that the file you provide in the dependancy will be overwritten with the one from Slackware. Or you have to make the dependancy the other way around...and it's a bit weird, how will you name it then? It also means that you need to upgrade the package-wrapper each time the main package will be upgraded upstream or the configuration will also be lost.

[gapan]

Anyway, while writing this I got another idea. We could provide a separate settings package that includes only that single change and add it as dependencies in our Slackware deps repository. Thoughts?

No, won't work. Dependencies are installed first. And with every xscreensaver upgrade this would also get reverted. Once again: a wiki page is enough for this.

[thom1]

Even replacing the package introduces at one hand an unnecessary maintenance overhead, but even worse diverges us from Slackware. If we start doing that, where to draw the line?

I realize that you have your principles of being compatible with Slackware but I can`t help saying that sometimes
unnecessary maintenance overhead for developers means convenience for the users thus making the perception of Salix more complete and user friendly.

Maybe salix is more user friendly than slackware, but it's not ubuntu. The goal of slackware/salix is to let users do what they want easily. If a user want to repack xscreensaver for his own use, he can just do it easily. Others users have not to use this repackt xscreensaver package if they don't want. That's why people like slackware/salix, these OS are too stupid to tell us what to do, so people have a full control and can custom them the way they want.

That's only my opinion.