SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Talk about other linux distributions, or even other OSes.
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Artim
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SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Post by Artim » 19. May 2019, 11:00

On the MX-Linux forums there is renewed interest in the systemd problem, since Debian Buster (MX is based on Debian Stable) will make it much for difficult to use the "shim" work-around. MX "has" systemd as a dependency for some apps and tools, but doesn't use it somehow. Fine for now, but when MX-19 comes out it may be impossible to avoid systemd, and SalixOS may pick up a bunch of new users!

I know this probably just a totally unrealistic dream, but since both distros seem to have the same mission, it would be awesome to see some collaboration between SalixOS developers and MX-Linux developers! The MX-Linux toolbox is awesome for "Lazy Debianers," and to see some of that implemented in our beloved SalixOS, and perhaps find a way to keep MX systemd-safe, would make both distros better!

Yup, probably totally unrealistic, since Debian and Slackware are so different from one another. But either way, we might be getting a whole buncha new users here coming from the "new rising star" on distrowatch, if and when they find it impossible to work around systemd. :D

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Re: SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Post by gapan » 19. May 2019, 20:55

So, what are these tools that MX has? I'm completely ignorant.
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Re: SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Post by Artim » 19. May 2019, 23:26

Hello, and thanks for asking!
  • An advanced kernel updater for a LiveUSB
  • Live USB Maker that makes a bootable USB copy of your installed system ("snapshot")
Snapshot also lets you remaster as you like.
  • Something like "MintStick" which lets you format a USB thumbdrive with a point-and-click instead of having to run GParted
  • Sharing files with an Android device
  • Boot repair tool
  • Broadcom Manager (for that especially troublesome wifi)
  • AMD/ATI and Nvidia driver installers
  • Compton Manager (to deal with screen tearing)
  • Package Catalogue and installer
  • Repository Manager

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Re: SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Post by gapan » 20. May 2019, 12:02

Thanks!
Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 23:26
  • An advanced kernel updater for a LiveUSB
So, this tool upgrades the kernel on the liveUSB? And then you boot the same stick with the updated kernel? If so, I'm not certain we would need it, we don't have that many kernel updates.
Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 23:26
  • Live USB Maker that makes a bootable USB copy of your installed system ("snapshot")
Snapshot also lets you remaster as you like.
We do have a tool like this one in the live iso.
Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 23:26
  • Something like "MintStick" which lets you format a USB thumbdrive with a point-and-click instead of having to run GParted
You mean format it with the live iso? Or just have a blank iso?

Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 23:26
  • Sharing files with an Android device
Doesn't that work just by connecting your phone with a USB cable? It does with mine.
Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 23:26
  • Boot repair tool
Interested for more info on what this does.
Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 23:26
  • Broadcom Manager (for that especially troublesome wifi)
Also interested.
Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 23:26
  • AMD/ATI and Nvidia driver installers
Also interested how this works.
Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 23:26
  • Compton Manager (to deal with screen tearing)
Not sure I understand what you mean by screen tearing. Xfce, MATE and KDE have their own compositors, so I don't know why another one should be added.
Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 23:26
  • Package Catalogue and installer
Isn't that what gslapt is?
Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 23:26
  • Repository Manager
Isn't that what (gtk)reposetup is?
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Re: SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Post by Artim » 20. May 2019, 20:35

Most of the tools, I think, are just scripts with a GUI that non-technical folks like me can just click their way through.

The kernel update tool lets MX users update the kernel on a Live USB.

"Mintstick," renamed in MX, lets users format a USB drive and/or write a bootable iso to the thumbdrive. I don't remember how I did it, but I have Mintstick on my SalixOS setup. The "big deal," I guess, is that it's there by default in MX.

I'm not sure how the boot repair tool works, but for newbies, technophobes, and the technically challenged (or, if you prefer, the lazy) can update and edit Grub with a few clicks of a mouse, from the LiveUSB. here is an explanation.

I couldn't tell you much about the Broadcom manager, since I've never used it. But here is a link to the wiki page on that tool.

A repository manager probably is unnecessary in SalixOS anyway, but in a big distro with multiple repos and mirrors it might matter.

As I suggested, these are prob'ly just scripts with some kind of GUI instead of doing these things from the command line.

I should have been scared away from SalixOS the minute I read that it was Slackware-based, but when others wrote about how simple and graphical it is, I just had to give it a try, if only to find a simple Xfce systemd-free OS that wasn't full of a bunch of bloatware and duplicate-function software. Coming from Xubuntu and having had trouble with Debian before, I wouldn't have imagined I could run any derivative of Slackware, famous for being super-technical and complicated! When I introduce friends, classmates, and family to Linux, though, Salix isn't "newbie friendly" enough (YET) for most of the people I know who would even care to look for an alternative OS. I'd love to see it made so, if I'm not being too presumptuous in even wishing for it. But I want to say thank for "taming wild Slackware" for people like me!

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Re: SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Post by ChuangTzu » 20. May 2019, 21:34

Artim wrote:
19. May 2019, 11:00
On the MX-Linux forums there is renewed interest in the systemd problem, since Debian Buster (MX is based on Debian Stable) will make it much for difficult to use the "shim" work-around. MX "has" systemd as a dependency for some apps and tools, but doesn't use it somehow. Fine for now, but when MX-19 comes out it may be impossible to avoid systemd, and SalixOS may pick up a bunch of new users!

I know this probably just a totally unrealistic dream, but since both distros seem to have the same mission, it would be awesome to see some collaboration between SalixOS developers and MX-Linux developers! The MX-Linux toolbox is awesome for "Lazy Debianers," and to see some of that implemented in our beloved SalixOS, and perhaps find a way to keep MX systemd-safe, would make both distros better!

Yup, probably totally unrealistic, since Debian and Slackware are so different from one another. But either way, we might be getting a whole buncha new users here coming from the "new rising star" on distrowatch, if and when they find it impossible to work around systemd. :D
It actually appears that MX (and most likely antiX) will have to either accept systemd or rebase off of Devuan, Debian, starting with Buster v. 10, is making it more and more difficult to completely remove systemd. The lockin is getting deeper. Also keep in mind, MX is not just dependent on Debian they are also dependent on antiX.
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Re: SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Post by ChuangTzu » 20. May 2019, 21:36

Artim wrote:
20. May 2019, 20:35
Most of the tools, I think, are just scripts with a GUI that non-technical folks like me can just click their way through.

The kernel update tool lets MX users update the kernel on a Live USB.

"Mintstick," renamed in MX, lets users format a USB drive and/or write a bootable iso to the thumbdrive. I don't remember how I did it, but I have Mintstick on my SalixOS setup. The "big deal," I guess, is that it's there by default in MX.

I'm not sure how the boot repair tool works, but for newbies, technophobes, and the technically challenged (or, if you prefer, the lazy) can update and edit Grub with a few clicks of a mouse, from the LiveUSB. here is an explanation.

I couldn't tell you much about the Broadcom manager, since I've never used it. But here is a link to the wiki page on that tool.

A repository manager probably is unnecessary in SalixOS anyway, but in a big distro with multiple repos and mirrors it might matter.

As I suggested, these are prob'ly just scripts with some kind of GUI instead of doing these things from the command line.

I should have been scared away from SalixOS the minute I read that it was Slackware-based, but when others wrote about how simple and graphical it is, I just had to give it a try, if only to find a simple Xfce systemd-free OS that wasn't full of a bunch of bloatware and duplicate-function software. Coming from Xubuntu and having had trouble with Debian before, I wouldn't have imagined I could run any derivative of Slackware, famous for being super-technical and complicated! When I introduce friends, classmates, and family to Linux, though, Salix isn't "newbie friendly" enough (YET) for most of the people I know who would even care to look for an alternative OS. I'd love to see it made so, if I'm not being too presumptuous in even wishing for it. But I want to say thank for "taming wild Slackware" for people like me!
Perhaps you are suggesting a "welcome screen" that displays the user friendly options that Salix already offers?
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Re: SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Post by Artim » 20. May 2019, 21:58

I find it "friendly" enough for me now that I have had some time to lurk in the forums and other sites, and to learn a bit. The Welcome screen is great, as is the Startup Guide. But I can tell you it's too technical even with these goodies for most of the people I want to introduce to Linux. I wouldn't have even looked twice at SalixOS for me, being a non-techy - in fact technophobic - casual computer user, except that it's systemd-free and works on really old hand-me-down computers. None of the newbies I introduce to Linux has any idea what systemd is and why it matters enough to turn from a super-simple kiddie distro like Linux Lite (which is what I use currently to introduce newbies) to any systemd-unencumbered distro that takes a bunch of reading and thought to install and get going.

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Re: SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Post by ChuangTzu » 20. May 2019, 22:07

Why was the switch away from systemd important for you, especially as a "casual user"?
Why do you use Salix and not Linux Lite or Xubuntu or Debian with Xfce or MX et all?

The answers to those questions may help you when discussing Linux OS' with non techie friends. Similar to (given your avatar) explaining why you like Star Trek to a non treckie,, or to someone that insists Star Wars (all 100 versions) is the only "Star" show/movie. ;)

PS: for most new users systemd will not matter, unless they have experience with the many problems that Windows registry makes/has.
PSS: This interview may help: https://www.linuxexpres.cz/rozhovor/int ... f-salix-os
and these: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7351
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7376
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Re: SalixOS May Inherit Lots of New Users Soon

Post by Artim » 21. May 2019, 01:11

I wrote this post in my blog to try to explain why it came to matter to me. It's like a daemon that spies on me, journals everything, reports back to the Mother Ship, and intrudes itself on every process. Forget about "do one thing and do it well" which used to be a rule that made Linux so fast and nimble. "One ring to rule them all," as Gandalf might say. THAT is what scares me about technology to begin with!

I tried Salix, gave up on it for awhile, and came back with a roar here).

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