If systemd is so bad...

Talk about other linux distributions, or even other OSes.
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If systemd is so bad...

Post by bobo » 25. May 2015, 15:44


Re: If systemd is so bad...

"If systemd is so bad... ...then why are so many distros using it?"

It's called blackmail.

RedHat are behind the whole thing. They spend the money that makes a lot of critical pieces of your average Linux distribution work. Now those things won't work without systemd and/or getting them to work without systemd is a right bitch/there are roadmaps to make them not work without systemd in short order.

The short version of this whole thing is that Poettering - and with him, RedHat - are trying to take the kernel away from Linux Torvalds. They are doing so by creating another kernel in userland that everything depends on. Once they have enough stuff jacked into Poettering's matrix, they'll use it to leverage Torvalds out of the picture and finally take the whole cake for themselves.

Systemd is nothing more than a cynical play for domination and control of the entire Linux ecosystem. To "own the stack" of a modern distro. And since RedHat has managed to co-opt so many core projects, there is precious little to stop them.

"Linux" as we think of it today is on life support. Android/Linux and systemd/Linux are now looking to be the two dominant entities. Traditional Linux - one that adheres to the Unix philosophy - is all but dead. Hopefully, Devuan can save it."
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Re: If systemd is so bad...

Post by icaroperseo » 25. May 2015, 18:18

I fully agree with your argument except in the following point:
bobo wrote: "Devuan can save it."
How can this be?

KDE, Mate, VLC, among others projects they already offer exclusive or priority support for systemd. In the case of KDE is possible to use it without systemd sacrificing some or much of its functionality something none of its users with different ideas to systemd deserves (a similar situation to racism itself). I do not think Devuan may have the means to go against the tide in all these respects. They may win a few battles but not the war.

I personally would like to see a direct contribution from Funtoo, Slackware and Devuan to try to reverse this situation. But I really believe that sooner or later Slackware will join to systemd (much to my regret).

Another possibility is BSD, in a very specific case PC-BSD and its agnostic DE/WM Lumina.


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Re: If systemd is so bad...

Post by ChuangTzu » 25. May 2015, 19:05

Agreed with much in Bobo's post, however, not all.

Systemd is an intrusive software suite that has more in common with a logging type malware than a new init system. It is not difficult to run a non-systemd system however. Requires patching or recompiling some programs, cups as an example, however, the outer layers of software are not dependent on systemd only some of the core components. Slackware and BSD's are a few examples of systems/distros that have no intention nor any reason to go the RedHat/Systemd route. Debian and some others it was all but guaranteed that they would given their large size, userbase, huge influence of RedHat developers, and the focus of their system which is mainly server and secondarily desktop. Also, the huge amount of derivative distros that depend on Debian also guaranteed they would follow RedHat.

Will Devuan make it, not sure, however, unless they become a niche distro like Slackware (a BSD/Linux distro. for those that want to use a BSD/Linux distro, then they will not last), they cannot go up against Debian/RedHat behemoth and compete. Linux will merely offer more choices, distros that use systemd and those that do not. Manjaro (Arch based) is also working on an OpenRC version...so options will remain, just not with the big boys.

If you look at the history of Debian, they have always followed RedHat, just at a much slower pace...

Slack has always done its own thing!

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